Friday, March 19, 2010

Can newcomers and old-timers get along in the North Country?

In many North Country communities -- including my adopted hometown of Saranac Lake -- one of the trickiest fault lines runs between "locals" and "outsiders."

It's not just seasonals vs. year-rounders.

There is often a thorny tension between neighbors who have lived in our small towns for generations, and the full-time residents who have chosen to move here.

Researchers who look at rural America sometimes talk about the "place-bound" community.

These are the folks who choose to stay in a hamlet or village, even when there are better opportunities elsewhere.

Their loyalty can pay big dividends.

These people often anchor whole communities, providing fire service and working as police officers.

They create much of the deep memory, sharing traditions and stories from one generation to the next.

But intermingled with these families are a growing number of newcomers, who like most Americans are far more transient.

They come to the North Country because they see something here that they want: a job, a lifestyle, the beauty of the place, a slower-paced life, and a sense of community.

Many times, they bring with them different values and different ideas.

Most people who study the health of communities will tell you that rural towns need this kind of fresh infusion of talent, energy and ideas.

The intermingling of the new and the old can spark creative partnerships, from the building of the Wild Center in Tupper Lake to efforts in Saranac Lake to revitalize Mt. Pisgah.

But all too often, the result is resentment, suspicion and anger.

One problem is that our two communities tend to live separately.

Yes, we're next-door neighbors. But we eat at different cafes, we listen to different radio stations, we join different civic organizations and churches.

In our college towns, this divide is sometimes even more stark, with life on campus divorced almost completely from the world just a few blocks away.

It's also an uncomfortable fact that many of the newcomers tend to be Democrats, while many of the place-bound folks tend to be Republicans or Conservatives.

So when it comes to hot button issues (Wal-Mart, say, or the merits of a new resort development) there are few lines of communication, and not nearly enough trust.

I worry that this tension will grow, especially if the economy worsens.

If prisons close and local governments lay off more workers -- both are prime sources of employment for native North Country families -- we could see the place bound community suffer more than their newcomer neighbors.

Honestly, I'm not sure how to narrow this gap. But I am convinced that we need each other.

Small towns are fragile places. The ones that survive and thrive will manage to put all the pieces together in interesting ways.

They will protect their traditions and their sense of place, while also welcoming the risk-taking and experimentation of the new.

Your thoughts welcome below.

45 Comments:

At March 19, 2010 9:00 AM , Anonymous b said...

Newcomers tend to be at least somewhat wealthier also, and they very often want to change things, things that end up costing people money. The single biggest complaint I've heard in every town I've lived in is when someone from a large urban area moves "to the country" and within weeks is lobbying to turn "the country" into "the city". It happens everywhere it seems. Even here i rural St Lawrence Co. I had a neighbor move in from the city and within weeks we were at odds because they couldn't grasp that letting their dog run loose and harass my livestock was a shooting offense, for the poor dog anyway. Thankfully they moved before that became necessary, but that's just one example.

If you move to an area try accepting the local norm instead of trying to turn it into whatever it was you left behind.

 
At March 19, 2010 9:23 AM , Anonymous P said...

Then there are the folks who upon graduating from high school, move away to attend college. Then they may spend some time serving in the military. After the military they may work in several different jobs, again moving around the country. Maybe they finally end up going to graduate school. Eventually, some of these people return home and....are treated like outsiders. Because they have become contaminated???

 
At March 19, 2010 10:01 AM , Blogger Jim said...

As "P" observed, my family came to the North Country from Vermont across the ice on Lake Champlain with a team of oxen and a bobsled around 1815. My father moved away and came back. I moved away for a few years in the military and college then came back but I am an 'outsider' in my community. The reason is partly because the attitude isn't based on the region but on each small locality. Five miles down the road is an 'other' place.

 
At March 19, 2010 10:25 AM , Blogger Brian F said...

Good piece and interesting too.

 
At March 19, 2010 10:49 AM , Blogger Will Doolittle said...

I think both sides are at fault -- the "locals" for being suspicious of "outsiders" and unwilling to welcome a diversity of viewpoints -- and the "newcomers" for, too often, paying no deference to the locals' sense of community ownership and being unwilling to put themselves in the locals' shoes. It is true that "locals" (I'm not sure how to define that, thus the quotation marks) in the North Country are often xenophobic about anyone they didn't go to elementary school with. But it is equally true that the "outsiders" often assume they should be able to assert their viewpoints without listening to the local community first. But how big is the community of hard-core "locals"? Even in a place like Saranac Lake, I think most people are somewhere in the middle, not meeting all the criteria of full-fledged, full-privileges, A-No. 1 Locals.

 
At March 19, 2010 11:35 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

This sounds like Vermont 30 years ago. As much as you may find this disturbing, Brian, it is several degrees less than it was in Vermont back then. I did run into this here too, but I don't think things are as bad. True, we may tend to live in separate silos, but I also see people working together well on various boards. The St. Lawrence County town I live in has a real reactionary streak, but I ran in a Republican primary 15 years ago and came within 3 votes of winning among a more conservative than normal electorate. Tri-lakes is reminiscent of Stowe in the past. I do worry about locals becoming second class citizens in their own back yard. I saw that happen in Vermont, and it will be too bad if it happens here.

 
At March 19, 2010 11:46 AM , Blogger BRFvolpe said...

Xenophobia isn't confined to the NC. It's ingrained in social creatures. That's why we have to work hard to be tolerant and accepting. That's part of why we have a hard time distinguishing between being different, and being wrong.

 
At March 19, 2010 2:12 PM , Anonymous Paul said...

I don't really see the "tension" that Brain describes. Sure every place has its share of loose screws but all of America including the NC has always been a county of immigrants and "transients". I have always found people, especially folks in Saranac Lake, to be pretty good to newcomers. You do need to be aware of some “cultural” (for lack of a better word) differences, but that is the same anywhere you go. So as long as you are not too much in their face people seem to get along pretty well. It is when you are not sensitive to the differences and ignore the fact that you may have to make a few "adjustments” that you run into tension.

 
At March 19, 2010 4:58 PM , Blogger Bruce Ware said...

One of the more interesting spots that this shows up is at the school around budget time. In Westport,we have a Nationally acclaimed school (although you wouldn't know it by the local press)Highly ranked by USNEWS and World reports, and the the folks that send the 6th and 7th generation of their family to the school (poor as they are)are happy pay the tax but the late arrivals complain that we are spending to much per child.This makes me sad because we all benefit by the wonderful childern we send out into the world, its our best product and sadly because of the parks economy its also our biggest export!

 
At March 19, 2010 6:21 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

If you feel the resentment from locals it's probably more because your acting like a jerk than that your not a local. I have been coming to my camp for the past 15 years and have never felt any animosity. Actually my neighbor has become a very good friend. I grew up in a lake community that had an influx of city folk in summers, sure the called us hicks but when they were closing up their camps they would tell us how lucky we were. I never felt animosity the eithe

 
At March 19, 2010 8:29 PM , Anonymous Chuck said...

Want proof, check out "TAUNY". This is a great example.

 
At March 19, 2010 9:03 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

I have lived in Vermont, in several locations and have been back in St Lawrence County for the last 7 years. We were here for about 8 years before. I would have to say that even old Vermonters "not the transplanted Flatlanders" were more open, and friendlier than folks here. No one here makes reall friends. Aquaintences, certainly. And for the most part folks who have lived here in the real North all their lives are friendly and kind enough. However, they do not let you in. If you don't call them, you don't hear from them (yes even women!). We go to church with the same folks we have for 7 years now, and we can go in and out without them talking if we do not start the conversation. They act as if they do not need social contact. I have never had "girlfriends" here that get together and talk, have a glass of wine or cup of coffe. It just isn't done. We have one couple we are close to in De Kalb Junction, and we never would of met had I not grown up on the street his brother lived on in CT! Praise God they have been the salt of the earth, lovely and sharing meals and family, etc. We have had so many folks over for meals and it is never reciprocated. We have had birthday partys where we invite every child in the class, and only ONE comes. The rest do not RSVP. Unheard of where I was raised.
I love the land here, we have worked hard, but heaven help you if you have a job (or want one) where only locals who are related to locals get advancement or even hired in the first place, no matter what their education or training. Most folks North of Watertown work for half of what they would in other areas of the country doing the same job! What is it about paying a whopping $8-10 per hour? And your neighbor thinks you should be thankful. Geez.
I agree with the term used by b, because somtimes we feel as if we are contaminated too!

 
At March 19, 2010 11:41 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

Left the North Country in November
1955 and have only gone back to visit once in a while. The last time I visited was in November 1992. I have NO plans of moving back to Northern New York, so you don't
have to worry about your jobs being
taken over by some newcomer.
I have resided in S/W Texas for the last 35&1/2 years and have NO
plans on returning to NNY.

 
At March 20, 2010 6:41 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

Thank you.

 
At March 20, 2010 6:41 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

Thank you.

 
At March 20, 2010 8:51 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

Old-timers cannot get along with other Old-timers . The grudges and differences that started generations ago are still alive and well. The "newcomer" is just collateral damage in the turf wars of small communities.

 
At March 20, 2010 9:45 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

Thanks for raising this topic. It is a constant undercurrent, sometimes bubbling over in a manner of name-calling, in most important matters in the ADKS. However, I do want someone to provide us all with the criteria for being a native or local. Must be born "here"? Had to attend school here? Never left the area, or only for a short vacation? (Even that is suspect in some circles..) Parents had to have been born here? Grandparents? More? Maybe that doesn't reach back far enough - maybe we need to all be considered interlopers, outsiders, unless we are members of the first nation peoples? Frankly, I think such pre-requisites for having a vote/voice in community issues is foolish and dangerously shortsighted. Can't we all just give our best and accept the best from others?

 
At March 20, 2010 10:58 AM , Blogger Jody Tosti said...

Thanks, Chuck, for the TAUNY kudos!!

I'm a newcomer to the NC. About 10 years now. From my first job at the Potsdam Co-op, my days of NCPR journalism to my recent gig at TAUNY, I've found my N.C. communities to be pretty accepting of my "Downstate ways."

I've come across a few curmudgeons, the poo-pooers of ANYTHING new, but no more or less than any other place where I've landed as the "newbie in town."

I've found the same with my two years of experience as Folkstore Manager. The "seasoned" native, North Country artists have been eager to foster newcomers in the folks arts of our region. The collaborative effort between the "old and the new" has been amazing, to say the least.

I think, if your church or social group is not fulfilling your emotional, spiritual or community needs, it may be time to look elsewhere. I'm part of a social group of women (Some are NC born, some aren't) that are crucial to my to life experience here. And, we work hard at maintaining our relationships because we value what each of us brings to the group.

And, as far as nepotism, I'm sad to say this would be a World Wide issue and not unique to the North Country.

 
At March 20, 2010 12:24 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

I too am one of these people who've been "here" all my life, I enjoy meeting new people and know we need them, But I noticed at a very young age that newcomers, tend to move here because of it's beauty or remoteness,and then try to transform it into where they grew up instead of where I have grown up.

 
At March 20, 2010 12:53 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

Yes. Check out TAUNY. The largest storefront in the county seat's Main Street. The "poster child" for Canton's CC insert. The folks who pay NOTHING in lieu of taxes and compete with taxpaying businesses. Thanks so much.

 
At March 20, 2010 12:54 PM , Blogger Tree said...

My family has owned land in the ADKs for 90 years, I went to highschool here, and have had several jobs over the past decade - but Im still an outsider - and thats okay. But it is the local's home, they have to open the door, whether or not we chose to call first, or knock first, at some point they have to act by opening up. There is a lot for us newcomers to learn from the locals and tons of good discussion to be had - which can be way more productive if done on a doorstep than at the voting polls.

 
At March 20, 2010 2:09 PM , Anonymous sunshine said...

I have lived in other places where I was the "newbie"...some incredibly welcoming where I formed life-long friends...some not so much. If I had not already known some folks here when I arrived 11 years ago, I would not have made it as I find it really difficult to get to know folks here...they just don't want to let a "newbie" in.
If and when you are allowed in, you couldn't wish for better friends and neighbors. Makes me think that folks are just so busy, they can't or don't make time for the 'newbie'.
Alas, not very many smiles given in shops or while strolling along Main St.

 
At March 20, 2010 2:29 PM , Blogger the dude said...

mobillity itself is a sign of class difference. Locals watch their place degrade not as a direct result of the actions of newcomerers but as a result of the self actualizing ethic they embody. In a culture that monitizes everything personal weath trumps traditional values. Sadly Public radio does plenty to diminish the voice and the interests of locals.

 
At March 20, 2010 4:01 PM , Anonymous mervel said...

I think there is some tension but in general it is not so bad. It does come down to respect. This is a rural environment, people rightfully enjoy hunting and fishing and also enjoy the outdoors using snowmobiles and atvs. There can be conflict in these areas but we should just respect each other and learn from each other.

Sometimes I get annoyed when people who move here ignore the very real issue of poverty that plagues our region, or pretend like it does not exist, there is definitely an elitist attitude among some people. You can see it in some of the disdainful attitudes people have about trying to keep the prison jobs and looking down on CO's and so forth or the attitudes about wind power or any new development. It is kind of like they don’t want real people actually living in their playground.

 
At March 20, 2010 5:23 PM , Anonymous Buffet said...

(;03- Did you ever think maybe YOU are the reason re standoffish? Your post is pretty egotistical, as if the locals should be running to bask in your presence, and then you diss the locals for working for peanuts.

Nah, it must be them.

 
At March 20, 2010 7:32 PM , Blogger PCS said...

In SL the last couple of weeks, one issue discussed extensively has been that of growth. How do we get new businesses to come to SL? How do we get good jobs for the residents of SL? How do we keep our children from leaving? It seems to me that for these things to happen, "outsiders" are going to have to move into the area. If it's a high tech business, it might even involve "elites" moving to the area. Read the welcoming comments to newcomers on the ADE website.

 
At March 20, 2010 7:40 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

I'm fairly new, but one thing that astonished me is the lack of confidence of NCers in their own neck of the woods. You always get the question, "Why did you move HERE?"
They simply can't believe someone would choose to live here.
In a lot of cases, there's not the pride needed to really sell the place, IMO. If the North Country had the salesmanship of Vermont, or even of an armpit like Houston, the economy would be a lot better.
On the other hand, it probably stopped a real-estate bubble from forming.

 
At March 20, 2010 8:36 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

For those of us who have recently moved to upstate New York---you must know that we WANT to and LIKE living here - why else would we pay taxes out the wazoo?? We have found nothing but friendly people here in Dexter, NY....

 
At March 20, 2010 8:44 PM , Anonymous mervel said...

Sure I want to see new people move in it is a sign of growth. We need to be welcoming. New people need to be respectful of traditions that are already here though. They don't have to like them or do them, just don't tell me what I can and can't do in a place I grew up. Also it is true about the self confidence, I do complain sometimes but I choose to stay here because it is a great place for a variety of reasons.

The more new people the more people to support our school systems and roads and so forth we need you!

 
At March 20, 2010 8:59 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

My Family has lived in the Northern NY for generations (both sides). I live here, work here, was a public official for 12 years. Does this mean I have "Seniority", or "privalage" over someone new to town ? Absolutely not. To think that I do would be, well...Stupid. It does not take a Genius to understand how young this country is, and how new we are to it (ask a Native American). We do not own the land (try missing 3 years on your property taxes and you will find out). Good people are "Good People", no matter where they are (same goes for the bad ones).

 
At March 20, 2010 10:23 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

I knew what this article was really hinting at: conservatives vs. democrat.

 
At March 21, 2010 8:18 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

I was born and raised in the NC and had lived in my own home x 20 years, always had good neighbors, we always watched out for each other. At one point, a home next door to our property was sold to a middle aged couple from NJ. The very first thing they did when they moved in was to come over and show my husband where the property line was, as if we didn't already know!, and then park a junk car in their back yard in plain site from our home obscurring our view! I don't mind new-comers, I welcome them but why do they feel the need to be so territorial?! We tried numerous times to neighbor with them but they looked down their noses as if they were better and more educated than the "locals" - and he was a retired Minister! I always beleive to not judge a book by its cover, so please don't judge all locals and newcomers before you get a chance to know them - we are all new somewhere at some point in our lives!

 
At March 21, 2010 10:20 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

Yawn. Yes, YAWN. This is not something new or unique to the Saranac Lake/Tri-Lakes community. This is human nature. Was it news worthy that NYC has China Town, Little Italy, Little... you name it? No, and the reason being is that it is human nature to associate with those who are like you. No need for long vexing on the subject. Get outside and enjoy the outdoors!

 
At March 21, 2010 11:36 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

I live in Watertown, so living next to transients, or newcomers is nothing new. My next door neighbors are from NJ and are some of the nicest people I have ever met. The other neighbors are from Rochester and act like the biggest snobs I have ever met. People are the same pretty much everywhere. Most are nice and helpful when you need them, but there are also those who who we would rather not have as our neighbors.

 
At March 21, 2010 1:24 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

I married a "native {3rd generation}" ADK'r 25 yrs ago and have had no problem fitting in the Central ADK's; my Mom's family is from the Saranac Lake area so I guess I might have fit in better than some others. At least 6 of his highschool classmates stayed in the area and have also been married to women from other areas for at least the same amount of time and they have all become respected community members. We all loved the area as it was we didn't try to change it. We aren't all friends - we see each other on occasion, but have different interests, so I know that outsiders can move in succesfully .On another note, we are the only year round residents on our road and enjoy the company of our neighbors when they are here, until now. The people building at the end of the one lane dirt dead end road are the epitome of what we dread in "outsiders"- drive 30MPH down the road {we all have kids, pets,etc.}, they use our limited parking area as their own and when thats not enough use our lawn. I can hear it already when they complain to their relatives about not being as welcome they imagined they would be. And it's not just us- they have been trying to change the way the highway dept. takes care of the road and the codes inspector "has it out for them", something about the septic tank and what it contains running down hill on the people below . I guess that my point is that sometimes we have to look into ourselves when "everyone" seems to be unfriendly and realize that it might not just be your septic tank s***ing on your neighbors. Has nothing to do with politics.

 
At March 21, 2010 3:38 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

Some interesting new comer stories: leave the trash at the end of the rural drive and expect it to be picked up.
Then call the town and complain the deer are eating their expensive landscape.
They don't recognize that the local Fd and Ambulance are volunteer and take a bit to get to them.
Sometimes everyone needs to come along to get along.

 
At March 21, 2010 7:29 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

Conservative vs Democrat ?? Guess I don't see it that way, but it is what YOU make it (as always).

 
At March 21, 2010 8:06 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

Of course Demo vs. Conservative. Where have you been? The truth is there is a lot of downstaters that are conservative.

 
At March 22, 2010 9:17 AM , Anonymous tourpro said...

Are we talking about milfoil?

 
At March 22, 2010 9:35 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

The problem with more affluent (yes, probably more "liberal") newcomers is that some of them really have a deeply ingrained superiority complex. They believe that all their new ideas are good and better, and that the locals need some sort of "help" or "uplifting" - the sort that only they, the more sophisticated newcomers, can provide. And I know very well that some of these people are reading this comment now, and nodding on the surface - but deep down they still feel like they are the enlightened ones. Sorry, but it's true. I vote Democrat most of the time, but I don't have that "we are here to save the world" urge that a lot of my fellow middle-class Americans do. It is an article of faith with them that they are "educated" and "know better" and even while they wouldn't ever say such a thing or even think it, this attitude is buried deep inside them.

 
At March 22, 2010 3:05 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

I totally agree with the above post. You hit the proverbial nail on the head.

 
At March 22, 2010 10:09 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

I agree too, especially with the buried deep inside part.
Because I can tell that Anonymous is totally psychic.

 
At March 25, 2010 3:52 PM , Blogger the dude said...

hi there

 
At March 25, 2010 3:53 PM , Blogger the dude said...

hi there

 
At March 25, 2010 4:07 PM , Blogger the dude said...

Sorry about those hi there messages, I did them as tests.

I think the basic distrust of educated people is due to the fact that we have grown into a culture where the strong exploit the weak. The easiest route to power is through college. Every time you get robbed it seem to come through the efforts of the educated.

 

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